I guess this falls under a bit of a HELP category, it's almost a call to arms if you will!

Of late the amount of templates and or parts that are being used with out permission is on the increase, personally I can't understand why someone would want to use someone else's work, they obviously have no pride in their own!

At the end of the day it is this simple, if you have the ability to create a livery you also have the ability to build your own templates and parts! Stop being lazy and expend some effort on building your own templates to develop your own identity!

As a professional designer our templates are our business tools, they also identify the artist by showcasing their own style, having someone steal or use all or parts of our work only degrades what we have spent years building up.

This is something that must be stopped, those people that are guilty of it, have some pride in your own work and don't pass other peoples hard work off as your own!!

So what would be the best way to address this?

I have a few ideas but as a community I think it is something we all need to work together on.

+1 Karma for you Dane!

I agree. There are a lot of takers out there and not too many givers. I gets frustrating when someone decides to re-purpose my work without consulting me or even giving credit.

I think what 'designers' who are using other people templates don't understand how to use the programs they have properly. They just want to get in there and slap on a few logos and say "Look what I did". Maybe if they had tutorials to read (e.g: how to use the pen tool) they might be more inclined to try it for themselves. But then again, they'll only trace already made templates.

Kiddy 'designers' need to wake up to the fact that their reputation will suffer if they keep stealing other peoples work. Unfortunately, they aren't mature enough to realise the implications of stealing other people's efforts.

I have tried to think of ways to combat this situation but so far, other than not displaying any of my work, I haven't found a solution. Maybe scaring them off with Copyright might do the trick. However when it comes to creating liveries, how many people sort license to use the logos in the designs?

I look forward to your ideas, Dane.

One thing I thought of recently (After seeing what you pointed out on V8C Dane), is that a series of guides could be made to help out guys that dont quite yet have the skills to produce work to the standard they would like.

A step by step, pictorial guide on how to do various aspects would, I think anyway, stop atleast some of the copying (You will never completely get rid of it).

I know for rims and things I would have loved a guide (For illustrator or photoshop, same principles could be applied in either) when I first started out , isntead of sending sheepish emails to get permission to "borrow" parts of another template. Even now I despise doing rims, but have had enough practice to get them done if needed.

"A Guide to your first template"
"A Guide to Rims and Tyres"
"A Guide to Headlights"'

They would take time obviously, some would be shorter than others, but instead of chopping people off at the knees and "scaring them", this option could encourage them?

Pete - Copyright doesn't seem to worry most of them, they don't seem to care about it, I have had many an argument on V8C about it only for it to be taken totally out of context and beyond any logical thought! Also the difference with us using the logo's is that we aren't claiming those as our own or posting them for public use.

'Copyright is a type of property that is founded on a person's creative skill and labour. It is designed to prevent the unauthorised use by others of a work, that is, the original form in which an idea or information has been expressed by the creator.'

From the Attorney-General's website - Attorney General's Department - Copyright.

Kieran - I know exactly what you are saying, I would have given anything for a well worded document walking you through the different steps to make something, there are some good tutorial sites out there but they are sometimes hard to follow. I have tried similar over on V8C, I did produce a guide or two for a couple of people but that was after talking at length with them, I still help these guys today, I have tried to help other people online directly and have ended up giving up as it was all too hard for them, they would get half way through it and say 'nah can't be bothered I'll keep what I've got', or 'nah I don't like the way you are doing it' and so on. After all of that I said nah, no more, why should I when the help I keep getting asked to give is never accepted or appreciated? I have found with most of these guys, you show them one thing and that's it they think they know everything and are now experts!

I have thought about doing the same on here but I think it will end up getting the same treatment to be honest! Encouragement is definately the way to go though, some people need to realise that they don't know everything about design and they never will!!! I constantly learn new things everyday!

The other issue is how indepth do you go with a guide, not deep enough and it is of no use, too deep and then everyones work will look the same as yours?

I think the problem with guides online is that they are generally not related to motorsport, so a lot of people dont take much notice, or don't follow them well enough for them to apply to doing a V8 Template.

I think if people have something to read that is detailed enough for them to make an outline of a rim, then that is better than nothing. For shading and adding extra detail let them work it out for themselves, they can stick with a basic flat imagem or try their hand at some shading like you use on your templates Dane.

As for work being similar, thats true, and would need some thought. In my mind (For illustrator anyway)there are two styles, the "Stroke Outlined" or the "Shaded Outline", for example with High Quality templates like yours and Robs, they are made up of strokes, and the templates look similar(But are still distinguishable), where as Willsy uses a shaded outline will little stroke work to achieve a different look.

But with someone thats just starting out it's going to be near impossible to replicate either of those looks unless they put in a lot of work and time to get it right. Most will stop at a basic level and be happy with it, those with the dedication will keep working on it,a nd likely apply their own flare. So there might be a few basic templates being used, but those making a real go at it will realise they need to make their work stand out, and try different things that will distinguish the high end work.

That is true, most of the online tutorials are aimed at car modifying etc.

I agree that something is better than nothing, but at the same time what experiance level do you aim the guide at? Some people may have more experience using a program but they may have not used all the tools or even know what all the tools are! Shading is a very personal thing and it does take a fair bit to get right, so i guess it would create individual looking wheels.

I guess with the similarities it would also depend on what base image they use, obviously if they use a different base image then the template will be different. There is definantly at least the two styles you mention, again it is horse for course's here, it will depend on the style the person likes as to how their template turns out.

I think the biggest thing with building a template is that people don't realise how long it actually takes, once they do realise though they usually give up and then use someone else's, here in lies the problem - Ability vs Effort! I have put around 30 or so hours into building my current template and it has 34 layers, something which a lot of people wouldn't know, but it goes to show how much work is actually involved.

As I have said before, I would be willing to help people out, as long as the advice etc is actually taken on board and utelised, not just disgarded with the 'I know better' attitude.

I do have one idea. You might not like it though.

Why not create a lower-quality template and attach Creative-Commons to it? It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just something that would stop people leeching off your better quality templates.

Those with talent are always going to do something creative. For example, Biggy G has been using 3D models for quite a while now. His quality of work is so good because of the effort he has put into research and presentation.

When I look at some of the attempts on V8C, it seems that either the thieves just want to get their idea out there or they just want kudos. A possible solution might be not to respond to their ideas at all. Then they'll be forced to try something better. When they create their own template, then they will get the kudos they deserve.

It seems like kids today don't understand Copyright. I have had the same problems with my created Mini-Racers. Maybe the talented designers should have a separate area on the forum where only trusted people are allowed in. Then we can show off our work and it'll be harder for people to steal.

Rhys from over at Goldfinch Designs has a whole host of templates available:

www.goldfinchdesigns.110mb.com/templates.html

Doest seem people want to use them though. Plenty of variety in terms of rims people could use from them without getting in trouble too.

Beat me to it Kieran. There are templates out there and alot of people have been directed to those ones, but they aren't good enough for them, to me, something is better than nothing!

Putting a template out with a Creative-Common wont make a difference, they will use it as a base and add bits to it, it wont stop anything.

V8C is all about one up manship now, not the designs or the work itself. For example when Scott started posting his 3D stuff everyone was all over it saying how great it was etc. etc. but the work itself wasn't the best quality, people didn't see this as they where blinded by it's 3D nature. There was a stage there where he was posting pretty much the same livery for three different teams and everyone was saying how great they were, even though they where the same design no one picked up on this! I showed Alex (BAC-013) an example of this on a traditional 2D template and how poor the design looked (please don't think this is sour grapes), but again due to it being on a 3D template no one saw it! The guys over there are now rushing stuff out all the time just to do better than the last, this is actually dropping the quality of the work as each person forgoes quality to just get something out there. It doesn't force them to do better at all!

The idea of a seperate area is a bit over the top and would be a bit pointless I feel, for one most of us upload our images to a seperate image host where anyone has access to them, that automatically defeats the seperate area. Also if this was to happen, what would the entry criteria be? I like sharing my work with the wider community on the forum, it provides a wider range of available feedback too.

Then the only other idea I can suggest is that you become friends with the Admin and get them to put rules in place where copied or stolen templates result in a ban.

I forgot about those templates. Rhys has put a lot of work into them. For those who are too lazy to make their own templates and yet not uses the templates from Goldfinch is kind of a slap in the face.

I noticed the 3D work by Scott. I think that might be a result of Willsy, Pete and Biggy supplying good quality liveries in 3D. If people are applauding the fact that it's 3D but doesn't look good in 2D then you might as well just ignore it. I'm sure that other skilled designers are thinking the same thing you are and I know that you could do a much better job. Maybe V8C isn't the place for you anymore. Don't forget that you can always get your work critiqued at DeviantArt.